thekid
Ok to Drive
i hate the sand
Posts: 156
|
Post by thekid on Jan 5, 2012 18:58:55 GMT -8
so on the first as some of you know we did a snow search run. three of us went out and spent the day, took the 42-4220-41 and back to sunset falls rd. well as we came back into civilization we stopped at the sunset falls trail head day use area to air up our tires(i was running 8psi in the front and 5 in the rear -a little less than id like to be running on the road without bead locks) and use the restroom. we had been there no more than 10min before the camp host came walking over. not so much as a "hi" or "hows it going" or "good after noon" from him, rather, he just jumps in immediately with "ok boys this is how its gonna go..." and not in a friendly tone. after about two min of butt chewing by this older gentleman(i use that term loosely) we try to inform him what we are doing. he doesnt seam to care and says something to the affect of "all you guys in your 4x4s coming out here and using our land with out paying for it ect.... and parking here... bla bla bla" at this point i just stopped listening to him. i found his remarks to us, very rude and inappropriate. so much so that on tuesday i went to the headquarters on gher/112s ave to file a complaint. there was no reason for this guy to come out and say what he did, how he did.
i politely and nicely explained the situation to the gentleman at the USFS offices, and he agreed with me. more over he added that it was a safety issue for us needing to fill up out tires. he was more than helpful to me(i explained to him about our group and what you guys have done in the area as far as education and conservation ect -he was ecstatic, and had not heard of this/us or what you guys have done untill then). anyhow none of us in the group that went out on the 1st where rude or disrespectful of the camp host. we simply packed up out stuff and very carefully dove in to yacolt to air up.
i could totally see the camp host point of view if say, this had occurred on say memorial day, or labor day or the 4th of july or some bigger holiday in the spring or summer when the park would be packed with day users ect. the simple fact of the matter was that we were the only ones in the park -other than two other vehilce that had been their all day. the park was empty, and with or with out us there was no revenue coming in, but not because of us. it was just simply not busy.
now i understand that parks have to make their money some how, and if we had come there to say eat lunch or park a tow rig there or go swimming or fishing or something other than fill up our tires so we could safely drive home and we didnt pay then he would have all the right in the world to yell at us(he didnt even so much as ask if we had a discoverer pass or ask if we had paid the day use fee, he just started yelling at us). its people and situations like him/this that make me, and others im sure not want to buy passes or donate(time or money) or help in any way to "the cause". fortunately i can see the bigger picture and am hoping to become apart of that. but people like this man do nothing to help the cause. im not saying he should be fired or relived of his position -would i lose any sleep over it if he was, NO. i guess my point is that its people like this that we have to contend with not only in our daily lives but in our fun times, when we try to make things better for everyone around us. i just didnt expect it from someone who is supposedly on the "same team".
-ok im off my soap box now if i was way off base in posting this or going to the headquarters and saying what i said then by all means tell me and let me know. its just been bothering me this entire week.
|
|
|
Post by bigstuck on Jan 5, 2012 19:32:34 GMT -8
Nice Job.
Sounds like he just needs a good talking to because really you never know who your going to run into on the trail. What if it was a bunch of DNR and Gifford uppers that just happened to be on there day off and in there street clothes and rigs with family....(hey it could happen). But like you said people like him make it hard for everybody. Ive had good expierences and bad with camp hosts all over. Some are disgruntled blue hairs that i think thought they were getting a quiet resort campground but got a ORV dunes camp ground instead for there assignment. Who knows but those people always put a cramp in a fun day or weekend.
I agree with what you did and sometimes the checks just need to be balanced every now and again.
|
|
|
Post by bchutchens on Jan 5, 2012 20:07:38 GMT -8
I have had that same guy come out and say about the same to us. I don't think he likes anyone in a 4x4.
And thanks for waving today on I-5. Your rig stands out in traffic.
|
|
|
Post by mtn4wheeler on Jan 5, 2012 20:35:04 GMT -8
I remember the same guy coming out and talking to us a few different times. During the winter and during the summer. The one time during the summer he was driving around on his riding lawnmower and came over to tell us the same thing and half of us had forest passes. But that didn't faze him from going off on us.
In a way I'm glad to see we were not the only ones he has done that to. But now if I'm there again this year and he comes up to me and try's his little speech when my pass is showing I will go down to GPNF Headquarters and talk with them.
Just my $.02
|
|
|
Post by fivendime on Jan 5, 2012 20:42:57 GMT -8
Been there before with this guy and others in multiple different campgrounds around the states. I think personal views are tainted from the bad apples that seem to frequent the area. Not knowing any other side of the sport he would more then likely think that all us guys in 4x4's do the same old tearing up of the land, which we know as false. Too bad he has been influenced that way. Shame on him for stereo typing and judging without facts. I cant say if you did the right thing, thats up to you.
|
|
|
Post by pistonschick on Jan 5, 2012 20:58:11 GMT -8
Hey Isaac,
Thanks for posting up about your experience. I think many of us have had the very same run-in with this particular older gentleman and have had our feathers ruffled in exactly the same manner. He is always rude, accusatory and completely out of line.
You are completely 100% accurate that you were doing no harm and he should have been MUCH more polite - it's actually in his written job description to be just that - friendly and informational. He is a steward of that park - no more, no less.
He is obviously "anti 4x4" and there is not really anything we can do about his attitude. I can only imagine that he has had too many "bad" experiences with 4x4 enthusiasts and our fellow 4-wheelers have created this monster for us all to deal with. We've had many, many heart-to-heart conversations about him with GPNF upper management. I would have to imagine that in reality, they must support his behavior or he would have been gone a long time ago.
On the other hand - Mr. Grumpy IS correct in that when we stop in that area we are parking in a day use area that is fee managed. We are using the bathrooms and parking on the pavement - all of that costs money. Someone (Mr. Grumpy) has to clean the park, stock the bathrooms, take care of minor maintenance and assist contractors that handle major maintenance in the park. We get the luxury and convenience of an actual bathroom at the beginning and end of a long day and not having to kneel in the mud to air down / air up our tires.
I would imagine that in Mr. Grumpy's mind, if no-one is paying the use fee to "use" the park that he is responsible for - he might be out of a job soon - and he is probably correct. I don't believe that he gets paid, so-to-speak, but he does get a free place to park his RV and free utilities. These days, for many senior citizens anyway, that can be the difference between having a place to hang their hat and ending up homeless. Sad but true.
So my official "on the record" advice to everyone for the future would be to either pay the day use use fee and enjoy the ammenities that are there for our use or make the effort to plan our "convenience stops" somewhere other than in the park. Is it fair? - not even close. But it is the right thing to do...
Me personally, I just pay the day use fee - it's good for all day (beginning and end of my adventure). And, I like to see the shocked look on Mr. Grumpy's face when I show him that I paid the fee. LOL
Just to reiterate, Isaac - I agree with you whole-heartedly and support all of your actions to the nines. But, even if we were successful in getting him fired the end result would likely just be the closure of the park because no one else would want to put up with the bull-shit that Mr. Grumpy has to deal with everyday (and every night).
Kill em' with cooperation - they won't know what to do!
Crystal
|
|
|
Post by pistonschick on Jan 5, 2012 21:05:39 GMT -8
The one time during the summer he was driving around on his riding lawnmower and came over to tell us the same thing and half of us had forest passes. But that didn't faze him from going off on us. I know that there are some "variances" with the Forest Pass. If a park is managed by a concessionaire, the day use fee must be paid even if you have a Forest Pass. Again, stupid but true. We experienced this last summer when we took a tour up to Takalak (sp?) Lake. I had the Forest Pass (and the Discover Pass) and still had to pay the day use fee to park my vehicle and eat lunch there. I don't know if Sunset Falls is managed by a concessionaire - but I will check it out tomorrow and post up so we at least know the rules. Crystal
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Jan 6, 2012 10:45:27 GMT -8
Hey Isaac, Thanks for posting up about your experience. I think many of us have had the very same run-in with this particular older gentleman and have had our feathers ruffled in exactly the same manner. He is always rude, accusatory and completely out of line. You are completely 100% accurate that you were doing no harm and he should have been MUCH more polite - it's actually in his written job description to be just that - friendly and informational. He is a steward of that park - no more, no less. He is obviously "anti 4x4" and there is not really anything we can do about his attitude. I can only imagine that he has had too many "bad" experiences with 4x4 enthusiasts and our fellow 4-wheelers have created this monster for us all to deal with. We've had many, many heart-to-heart conversations about him with GPNF upper management. I would have to imagine that in reality, they must support his behavior or he would have been gone a long time ago. On the other hand - Mr. Grumpy IS correct in that when we stop in that area we are parking in a day use area that is fee managed. We are using the bathrooms and parking on the pavement - all of that costs money. Someone (Mr. Grumpy) has to clean the park, stock the bathrooms, take care of minor maintenance and assist contractors that handle major maintenance in the park. We get the luxury and convenience of an actual bathroom at the beginning and end of a long day and not having to kneel in the mud to air down / air up our tires. I would imagine that in Mr. Grumpy's mind, if no-one is paying the use fee to "use" the park that he is responsible for - he might be out of a job soon - and he is probably correct. I don't believe that he gets paid, so-to-speak, but he does get a free place to park his RV and free utilities. These days, for many senior citizens anyway, that can be the difference between having a place to hang their hat and ending up homeless. Sad but true. So my official "on the record" advice to everyone for the future would be to either pay the day use use fee and enjoy the ammenities that are there for our use or make the effort to plan our "convenience stops" somewhere other than in the park. Is it fair? - not even close. But it is the right thing to do... Me personally, I just pay the day use fee - it's good for all day (beginning and end of my adventure). And, I like to see the shocked look on Mr. Grumpy's face when I show him that I paid the fee. LOL Just to reiterate, Isaac - I agree with you whole-heartedly and support all of your actions to the nines. But, even if we were successful in getting him fired the end result would likely just be the closure of the park because no one else would want to put up with the bull-shit that Mr. Grumpy has to deal with everyday (and every night). Kill em' with cooperation - they won't know what to do! Crystal Very well put. I have read on this quite a bit and after using the parking lot many times and have arguments with this very gentlemen I realized that I was in the wrong (as according to GPNF rules and regs) We now will use one of the large pull outs before the park to air up and down. I know it sucks to pay for something we use for 10 min but everything cost money to run and this is one of the way's we pay for it. I'm sorry you got hassled Isaac it can turn a great day into a crappy day.
|
|
thekid
Ok to Drive
i hate the sand
Posts: 156
|
Post by thekid on Jan 6, 2012 11:36:12 GMT -8
I have had that same guy come out and say about the same to us. I don't think he likes anyone in a 4x4. And thanks for waving today on I-5. Your rig stands out in traffic. sorry i didnt see you, when and where on I-5? was i going north or south. sometimes i can have major tunnel vision especially when im in a hurry.
|
|
|
Post by pistonschick on Jan 6, 2012 12:22:24 GMT -8
OK, here's the deal. I just got off the phone with Caitlin Sinkewicz with the Mount St Helens National Volcanic Monument and Surrounding Area Headquarters. She is located at 42218 N.E. Yale Bridge Road in Amboy, WA 98601 (360) 449-7800 NOTE: While I was in the middle of writing this - I got a call from Randy Peterson (Caitlin's boss) - the Recreation Manager at the same office listed above. Wow - that was fast! Here is the official GPFS page regarding Sunset Falls www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/giffordpinchot/recarea/?recid=31668Per my conversation with Caitlin (& Randy), a Northwest Forest Pass (annual or daily) is all you need to officially park in the lot (all day if you want). It IS acceptable to just stop and use the bathroom (and quickly air down / air up tires) and move on through without a Forest Pass or day use pass - less than 30 minutes and stay near your vehicle. It IS NOT acceptable to "loiter" for an extended period of time (more than 30 minutes) while using the bathroom and airing down/up tires without having a Forest Pass or purchasing a $5 day use pass. I am working with Randy to see what we can do about working towards making our interactions with the host at that park not only a positive experience for us, but for the host as well. In the meantime, please respect the rules above. When you do decide to use the park, park in an actual parking spot, don't block the walkways, lot access or throughways. It is important to note that Caitlin (and Randy) indicated that the gentleman who oversees that area is not just rude to 4-wheelers - he's that way to everyone. He is an equal opportunity grump - no specific sleight to 4-wheelers. Ron Mark is the name of the elderly gentleman, he is a volunteer and he does not get paid anything other than a place to park his RV and utilities. Randy is fully aware of Ron's personality flaws, in not being a ray of sunshine. Randy also noted that Ron is a tremendous asset to the Forest Service in handling vandalism and general bad behavior (ie drinking parties at night, driving on the lawn, shooting guns, general mischief, etc.) There - now we all know what's expected of us. Get out there and enjoy the snow. Say hi to Ron and know that we might just have to accept the fact that he is a "grumpy old man" and there is nothing we can do about it... Happy trails, Crystal
|
|
thekid
Ok to Drive
i hate the sand
Posts: 156
|
Post by thekid on Jan 6, 2012 12:58:37 GMT -8
i can be grumpy too... PTSD is a b1tch lol
i kid i kid i kid, but seriously if i get pushed too far i can start shoveling it right back
|
|
|
Post by bchutchens on Jan 6, 2012 15:11:52 GMT -8
Isaac, It was north bound on the island. I was in the white Frieghtliner in the middle lane. No problem.
|
|
|
Post by mikeybuck on Jan 6, 2012 15:34:52 GMT -8
Well I'm glad to hear that he is just a grumpy old man to everyone and not just 4 wheelers. To much BS happens at that park day or night, id be grumpy too but I still would never jump on someone for pulling in for a quick stop.
|
|
thekid
Ok to Drive
i hate the sand
Posts: 156
|
Post by thekid on Jan 6, 2012 15:47:07 GMT -8
Isaac, It was north bound on the island. I was in the white Frieghtliner in the middle lane. No problem. was i going the same way or oncoming? did you honk or flash your lights? great now im a jerk lol
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Jan 6, 2012 16:48:44 GMT -8
That good to here I'm glad I can stop on the assphalt and air up quickly. I'm also glad there were willing to talk to you. Thanks for doing the lag work Crystal and thanks for bringing this up Isaac.
|
|