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Post by oltmann on May 10, 2010 10:53:20 GMT -8
For suspension you will most likely want to be linked up. After wheeling the TJ I don't think you'll be happy with leaf springs. To make it an improvement over the TJ I would plan on coilovers, 3/4link front and 4 link rear.
Drivetrain. I personally would like to run a 4bt, with either np435 or t18/19 4spd into an atlas 4.3. I also agree with D60/14bolt right out of the gate, no sense building on 40s without them. To stay street legal I would narrow the front 60 to match the 67" wms of the 14bolt and run H1 beadlocks. This gives you the flexibility to run a more neutral offset beadlock in the future if you want to make the rig offroad only(wider).
Another option on axle width is to really narrow the front and match it with the 63" wms 14bolt and run a more standard beadlock(in the 17" variety if you plan to street it a lot and want the possibility of running radials)
I think the IH scout would be a good platform for all of this.
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Wyldman
Active Member
Safety & Education Chairman
IXOYE
Posts: 643
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Post by Wyldman on May 10, 2010 16:42:48 GMT -8
Toyrocs and oltmann, thanks for the details. That's great, very helpful. The great thing about the Toyota truck is... it's my ACE in the Hole. I've owned 7 Toy trucks and they are great off road machines. I'm trying to find something different though. I was thinking about a 69 IH Scout 800A (oltmann great minds think alike) or a Jeepster Commando for a build up. Anyone with experience with those? Let me know. As I get closer to making a decision on what I want to build. I will definitely look back on all the suggestions for the info provided here. Good Stuff Wyldman
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Post by toyrocs on May 10, 2010 17:29:06 GMT -8
Here is another idea thats been bouncing around in the gray matter: Fully hand built tube frame 4X4 truck. The theme of a 1985 Chev S10 Blazer (Or pickup) comes to mind. Buy a used old small Blazer ( first year is 1983?). This truck meets the size requirements. Use a few of the body / interior/ frame parts, but mainly use the VIN # & Title!!! Build tubing to except aftermarket fiberglass fenders/ bed panels/ engine hood. Kinda like a stadium/ baja truck. This will look like a normal body style to most. Aftermarket fiberglass body parts are available for Chevy/Toyota etc. Washington state law & State patrol rules say the predominate body style is what the vehicle will be registered as. IE: 1985 S10 Blazer (or PU). I have done some research in this area & think it may be doable Legally. Make sure that you use part of the OEM frame welded into the round tubing somewhere close to the original location. Maybe also use the Dash pad with the VIN & the door frame/ door info placards. Use a Chevy 4.3 vortec V6 engine 1993 thru 1995 ( balance shaft v6 engine) & a late model 700r4 automatic ( early 4l60) WITH the lock up torque converter. Also use a Chevy 231c (HD) transfer-case as the fwd doubler & then a 241c rear transfer case . (2.72 fwd box 2.72 rear box). Duffy machine in WA state can/ has built doubler kits for these. Build the normal 3-4 link suspension/ axles/ tranny & other stuff for an extreme custom rig like this--- You did ask for the unusual___ ;D ;D Toyrocs
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Post by toyrocs on May 11, 2010 20:52:03 GMT -8
Here is another interesting idea (IMO). 1973 , 1974 or 1975 Chevy K5 Blazer.
Remove about 6" to 12" from center of body & frame--- presto you now have a "narrow" full size SUV with a removable hard top & a short wheelbase.
Box in the "C" channel frame. Add extra support around the steering box mount.
Use the existing Engine/ tranny but upgrade the transfercase ( additional gear reduction or doubler?).
Dana 60/ 14 bolt axles.
Get wild with the suspension/ body protection.
Toyrocs
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Post by toyrocs on May 12, 2010 8:08:42 GMT -8
Here is some more questions/ cannon fodder.
What is the purpose for larger ( 38"-40") tires? For most real 4X4 users ( in decreasing order of importance): 1) More ground clearance. More ground clearance. 2) A distant Second. Larger tires are able to "roll over" larger boulders with ease. 3) Larger "Foot print" when aired down For "soft conditions" like snow/ sand.
Given the above, How do you increase ground clearance without going to a large or " tall" tire?
A) The Cheapest way is IFS/ IRS. Front ends axles/ suspension parts are available cheaply from 3/4 to 1 ton GM trucks ( 9.25" ring & pinion on 1988 & up) from a wrecking yard. These have some obvious draw backs, but you will get more clearance where it counts----- at the DIFF housing.
B) The most interesting for me would be a portal axle: 1. Something like a Volvo truck 303 axle ( solid axle). 2. Unimog 404 axles from a 60's- early 70's Mercedes Truck( solid axle). 3. Humvee or H1 (IFS) with a special AMC20 based Diff. The diff shafts ( half shafts) actually rotate opposite of tire rotation! 4) Custom ford 9" diff ( solid axle) with a "flipped" 3rd member. Using Humvee or H1 outer portal units with custom Yokes.
With the use of a portal you could run a 33"-35" tires & have the SAME clearance as running 41" to 45" tires with a traditional solid axle! This will make almost any available truck a total "sleeper" with low bumper heights & a low profile to help keep the Law away! A lot less body / bumper / fender mods also.
Use a Grand National race car differential type oil pump to lube the pinion bearing, if you "Flip" a differential & you drive it at prolonged high speeds ( street).
Portals = The best of both worlds!
Toyrocs
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Post by toyrocs on May 12, 2010 9:38:32 GMT -8
Here is another idea that will NOT fit your requirements AT all, but thought it would be fun to mention. Take any front wheel drive Car or light weight truck IE: Volkswagen PU from the 70's. Must have an automatic tranny with the lockup torque converter disabled. Install an identical engine/ transaxel in rear of car/ truck. Presto ----4 wheel drive & 4 wheel steer. Fuel efficient & double the horsepower . When 4wd is needed start the "EXTRA" engine! Automatics are able to handle slow speed crawling better than a 5spd & easier to match throttles & tire speeds, between the two engines when running. You would also have to make sure you don't burn up the non operating transmission as the tranny oil pump will not be turning when the rear engine is off! This truck would have no transfercase or center drive shafts to "HIT" or get hung up on, when you drag the REST of the undercarriage over ALL the rocks ! You did say unusual? EH? Toyrocs
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Post by toyrocs on May 13, 2010 5:32:12 GMT -8
I'll get back to reality here !
Suzuki Samurai: These are great little trucks with many great mods and a lot of aftermarket support!
Toyota axles. Extend the front axle forward about 6" The rear axle about 12" aft. 4 link front and rear. A engine swap with later model Suzuki or Chevy 4.3l ?
Toyota transfer case/ doubler--? . Use doubler only if pushing rear axle back 12" for reasonable rear drive shaft length.
Body mods to cover tires with fenders.
Add all the tube structure/ winch/ bumpers etc.
You might be able to find a used one that has been modded close to the above for way less than the $14k limit.
Toyrocs
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Post by toyrocs on May 13, 2010 6:23:22 GMT -8
Here is what I would do if I had a "SPARE" Jeep TJ laying around! ;D This would be the most practical of all my Suggestions & Maybe the best compromise of all. Any Jeep TJ: Close to stock 4.0l Auto or 5spd/ with doubler or low gear set in transfercase. Advance adapters now has a doubler kit that does not increase Length of drive train. No reports from field use that I'm aware of though. Install long arm kit.( $1,800-$3,500 ?) Install AirRock airspring & electronic ride height control system. ( about $ 3,500). This is the type of system I have on the Mini Snow Monster. Sway bars front & rear. Yep you heard that right. They are required for the AirRock system height sensors to work! You also really need the roll control when using airsprings. They don't limit ultimate travel or twist at all when crawling. Do not limit up travel with extended bump stops. You want the adjustable ( driver able to override at anytime on the fly) airsprings to lower TJ as low as possible when needed ( to meet bumper height requirements). Prov-en AirRock system, has cool factor ( different) that works great, Safer on & off-road. Lowers CG as necessary. Also raises/ tilts truck for off-road/ when crawling. Many out in the field ( 300+) worldwide. Customer support. You will love the system adjust-ability. Come check out my system sometime. All the other normal TJ upgrades. Big axles ( maybe a high pinion Dana 44 front & a high pinion Ford 9" in the rear) if your a heavy throttle user? Limit tire size to about 35" to be able to lower vehicle on road ( bumper height legal remember?). Run double beadlocks/ arbs/ on board engine driven air pump (York) A modded TJ makes the most sense & that's coming from a TOYOTA GUY !!! Remember? This Toyota guy even has a DD TJ sitting in the garage! Toyrocs
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Post by fivendime on May 13, 2010 6:31:05 GMT -8
In all seriousness You get stuck, just unhitch and ride off into the sunset ;D
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Post by toyrocs on May 13, 2010 8:10:43 GMT -8
Another unusual idea. A 2000? - 2001?- 2002? V70 ( ? ) Volvo station wagon Cross Country ! Yikes! Install Volvo 303 medium duty truck portal axles front & rear. Volvo Racing ran such a Volvo portal axle station wagon for racing in the Paris-Dakar for a few years! The 303 axles are available & the Volvo Cross- Country station wagons are showing up cheap used. I found a 2000 V70 for $6,500 on PDX craigslist. This car with portals & would give you lots of Differential clearance & ability. The LEO's would not look twice at this very capable "Stealth Wheeler". Besides it would be street legal if they did! ;D ;D Cheers. Toyrocs
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Post by oltmann on May 13, 2010 10:12:42 GMT -8
VW TDI in a samurai as described above could be fun!
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TORX
Ok to Drive
Posts: 294
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Post by TORX on May 13, 2010 13:56:07 GMT -8
If you don't care about weight, take the Iron Pig approach. Toyota FJ55: They're not the most aesthetically pleasing rig out there, but they sure are unique. It would be tough to chop one up, but if you picked up one with some rust I would chop the top and bob the back end. Drivetrain: Cummins 4BT, NV4500, NP205/203. I'm not sure about the FJ55 axles, but either build up some Cruiser axles or go to one tons. Suspension: I would think about leaving the front leaf sprung, and maybe link out the rear. Tires: I think a 37"- 38" would fit nicely with a little trimming. Armor: Add some tube work to protect the body, cage the interior, and definitely add "tree sliders" for the rain gutters. I'm a sucker for wagons what can I say? ;D
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tonka
Ok to Drive
My Heep
Posts: 256
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Post by tonka on May 16, 2010 9:10:15 GMT -8
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Wyldman
Active Member
Safety & Education Chairman
IXOYE
Posts: 643
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Post by Wyldman on May 16, 2010 11:26:18 GMT -8
I appreciate all the ideas, even the crazy ones. Thanks everyone. Keep them coming
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Post by 4bangerYJ on May 17, 2010 17:04:58 GMT -8
Here is another off the wall idea. Suzuki XL7. I bought 2 of those new. They have a full frame under them and real transfer case. Put some axles under it lift it and you will have a very good wheeler. The motors they use (V6) are very peppy and dependable.Get the limited model and you get leather heated seats,AC,and nice sound system. In the seven years that I drove mine not one warranty issue or break down.In snow ice and sand it was very sure footed. I all ways thought if my wife would have let me trick out HER car i would have had a great mudder.Just mayby I will have to do one.JIM
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