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Post by oltmann on Sept 25, 2009 10:45:44 GMT -8
I have an open question for the group.
Are there any natural rock areas in the proposed route that could be opened up as a rockcrawling 'play area'? Similar to the Crushers at TSF?
It may be worthwhile to designate an area that is highly challenging but not highly difficult to maintain to draw 'overbuilt' rigs off the rest of the trails. A rock slide, or rocky dry wash, lava flow, rock quarry, or something of that nature would be ideal.
I think this would be a relatively easy way to ease usage on the rest of the trail system. It always amazes me how long a group of vehicles can be entertained in a relatively small area like the Crushers.
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beatcj
Ok to Drive
Flat out LAZY...
Posts: 169
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Post by beatcj on Sept 25, 2009 12:45:26 GMT -8
I know there is at least one pit in the area, but as far as I know, DNR is still using it as a source. Since that area is pretty much volcanic, I would imagine there is someplace for something like that.
And I took the DNR Tarbell Trail map and compared it with the proposed trail map. I believe the 4x4 trails shown pretty much parallel the roads up there, so the idea of having regular cutoffs, and shorter segments is probably already in the designers plans.
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Post by toyrocs on Sept 28, 2009 17:23:44 GMT -8
Just a quick thought on the 4 corners campground & day use areas. I know that these areas are unfunded & will take years to develope.
1) Have a large percentage of pull-thru sites. However make each pull thru site double wide! A lot of OHV users go with friends & can use the same site to camp or day use, conserving space.
2) Have a didicated trailer parking area .This will become more important over time as more users discover this area.
Toyrocs
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flipflop
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attitude is everything
Posts: 178
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Post by flipflop on Sept 28, 2009 18:14:24 GMT -8
Just a quick thought on the 4 corners campground & day use areas. I know that these areas are unfunded & will take years to develope. 1) Have a large percentage of pull-thru sites. However make each pull thru site double wide! A lot of OHV users go with friends & can use the same site to camp or day use, conserving space. 2) Have a didicated trailer parking area .This will become more important over time as more users discover this area. Toyrocs I second what he said. Would it be possible to use a local well functioning OHV area to provide infastructure for the Yacolt Burn development? Example would be Browns Camp in the Tillamook state forest. If seems to be fuctioning well and I have been to many events there, where hundreds of vehicles, quads, and dirt bikes were in and around Browns Camp, with few if any problems. Browns Camp seems to have rather large camp sites, and ample tow-rig/trailer parking. The camp sites have a relatively low cost and from my experience have always been maintained(clean). flipflop
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beatcj
Ok to Drive
Flat out LAZY...
Posts: 169
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Post by beatcj on Sept 29, 2009 11:03:23 GMT -8
The negative side of pull through sites is they use up more ground per site than a back in site. The map of the proposed campground does show a few double sized sites. They also have a dedicated day use parking lot, I would assume it will be set up for tow rigs.
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Post by fivendime on Sept 29, 2009 13:44:06 GMT -8
I think there needs to be group sites. Like the large roundish sites so you can stuff a bunch of rigs in. Backing a trailer isn't that hard......unless your on your blind side.....which would mean that the sites should be made so you back in on your non-blind side, or just have someone keep an eye on stuff for ya if you are on the blind side. If those group sites would be suited for pull through style parking that would be perfect. Just my 02.
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Post by iceman on Sept 29, 2009 14:42:11 GMT -8
I'm a big fan of the group site’s I know that some people will be up there by them selves but from my experience most people don't wheel alone. So having group sites might be a good thing. We alway’s go with family or with the club and when we do go we like to camp together. I like the trail system if there will be pull out's (to gravel roads) to get rigs off the trail. I wouldn't like to drag a rig around a 25-mile loop. Plus if we don't have this it will eventually make for allot of traffic jams. This is just based off my experience from all the ORV parks I have been to.
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jeeper78
Winch Cable Monkey
1972 CJ-5
Posts: 39
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Post by jeeper78 on Sept 29, 2009 17:37:15 GMT -8
One question I have, will there be bypasses around the more technical areas? Not necessarily roads back to the main groomed roads though? What comes to mind is the McGrew trail (Creek 'n' Trail) in Southern Oregon along the OR/CA border, if any of you have been down there. There are sections of the trail that are very technical for those with rigs that are set up for it. But for rigs that aren't set up for it there is a trail around those particular sections...
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Post by hootie on Sept 29, 2009 17:59:53 GMT -8
Yes Jeeper,,, we hear what you are saying... The trails will be rated as best the trail committee can to make sure the trails will be used by appropriately capable vehicles.. As far as go arounds are concerned.. these will be possible in some areas and not possible in others... hence the rating system. I have seen several posts on this thread with similar concerns as yours and all ideas will be considered for the benefit of all users. This is a great opportunity for us all to get a great trail system.. and I am sure all involved will do their best to create what will ultimately be a system we can be proud of. Thanks for your input.
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jeeper78
Winch Cable Monkey
1972 CJ-5
Posts: 39
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Post by jeeper78 on Sept 29, 2009 19:16:45 GMT -8
Sorry If I sound like a broken record but my interpretation of the map and discussion is that this will be a long single trail, and not bits and pieces of different rated trails connecting roads sorta like TSF, hence my question. The way I am reading and understanding it, lesser rigs would have to "break off" from the group and go out to the main road on an "exit" road and meet up with the group who could go through on the other end versus taking a side trail. I personally wouldnt like this not only will you be separated from the group, but would be fun to watch the rigs who are cabable attempt those more technical (higher rated) areas. Maybe I am misunderstanding it? And yes I realize terrain and such plays a big part.
I agree, as others have stated, that there should be exit road of some sort for getting broken rigs off the trail.
I do like the proposed campgrounds and staging areas. They look to be sufficient and thought out.
I agree that a designated "mudding" area should be considered other wise people are gonna continue to go into closed areas.
These are just my thoughts and concerns and wanted to get them out there. I am glad this is happening here and can't wait til things get started!!
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Post by toyrocs on Sept 29, 2009 19:30:04 GMT -8
Here are some other thoughts on trail length, bypasses ( go arounds) & escape routes for broken rigs. 1) I & some others prefer longer trails to increase the experience of completing a difficult trail the whole way, with no other way out. Completing a long trail with no escape route. The only option is do all the obstacles/ bypasses. If your rig is broken, fix it on the spot or tow it out. This will give a real sense of adventure ( do / or die so to speak). Most 4x4 trails in the USA are very short & this would be a great opportunity to do something different! The long difficult Rubicon trail is very similar to this "concept".
2) Bypasses on more difficult short trails would OK if the terrain / trail plan allowed it.
3) Escape routes could be a problem, as this would be a quick way into difficult areas with less capable rigs ( wanna-bees). These rigs would be somewhere they probable should not be, especially in poor conditions ( wet/muddy/cold/snow/ ice). This could cause extra trail degradation by rigs with unlocked axles for example. Another consideration would be the increase in pressure for search / rescue resources & vehicle recover in the difficult sections that are easily accessible. I try to be self reliant as much as I can & travel with others when possible during hazardous conditions. Toyrocs
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Post by toyrocs on Sept 29, 2009 19:47:16 GMT -8
I agree that a designated "mudding" area should be considered other wise people are gonna continue to go into closed areas.
These are just my thoughts and concerns and wanted to get them out there. I am glad this is happening here and can't wait til things get started!!
[/ I also agree that a designated maintainable "mudding" area @ a trail head or camp area would be a great way to take pressure off the rest of the trails. Law enforcement/ DNR rangers/ trail patrol would also have easy access for any "education" or "problems" that may occur! Toyrocs.quote]
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Post by toyrocs on Sept 30, 2009 9:50:43 GMT -8
Just to show that I'm not cynical all the time! Some more thoughts on why this trail project is good for this area. 1) The actual # of NON-law abiding users of this area will probably remain the same ( at least for awhile) when these trails open up. 2) The # of law abiding users will go WAY UP, possibly changing the behavior of the outlaws or a least reporting them to law enforcement. 3) I think this is what is happening in the Tillamook Browns Camp area. More people who care about the area are involved & are out in the woods promoting & acting as stewards of our lands. Toyrocs
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beatcj
Ok to Drive
Flat out LAZY...
Posts: 169
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Post by beatcj on Sept 30, 2009 12:11:26 GMT -8
Good point about Group camping, I don't know anyone that goes alone.
While I also agree that backing a trailer isn't that difficult, it remains a fact there are people pulling trailers that can't do it. At work, we are constantly teaching people how to use their mirrors, even people that drive pickups with canopies.
And, probably the most important of my comments, remember that we aren't looking for input on individual trails at this point, but overall philosophy of the plan. I suspect that we still have an uphill pull to get trails on the ground. I do believe that due to the hard work that has been done they will come, but I fear it's going to require more patience than we hope.
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Post by bigpimpinben on Oct 7, 2009 15:42:09 GMT -8
It takes me to some page on windows live with a picture of a couple and a dog . I can't wait to get started on this, what's the proposed starting date?
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