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Post by Anonymous on Jun 15, 2010 13:29:47 GMT -8
All,
To answer the question about service hours, I'm sorry to say I have not logged any. Not due to the want, but the inability recently and not knowing further back. I do however participate in any trail clean up days I can in the TSF and always pack out garbage that I find on the road sides.
I choose to post under the cloak of aninimity simply because I want to speak my mind bluntly and out in the open and do not want ill will towards me in the future, should I choose to join this forum as well. I know that projects like this can become very close to some people and some folks may hold a grudge. Not saying anyone here would, but I'm just saying.
My wife and I are always looking for more people to camp/4wheel/fish/hangout with and 4 wheelers tend to be "our kind of people." I'd hate to lose out on a possible friendship because I ruffled a few feathers on this one post.
I admire your drive in getting this project completed. I know how difficult it is to work with the state and federal gov't. I worked with both for a short time and lost a couple years off my life just due to the stress and burocracy you had to go through. and I was just a peon!
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Post by bchutchens on Jun 15, 2010 15:17:19 GMT -8
On a side note do you think there would be a snowballs chance........in you know where, that horse back riders would bother to take there horses out on a trail with all the motorized rigs driving past? I think not....or at least I wouldn't want to be riding one while people went past all the time, especially on one I'm breaking in. I really don't think that horse and motorized trails would be a problem. I have run into them in the past. If people just followed some Trail Etiquette. I know that the horse people have more problems with mountain bikers. Because they don't give the horse any warnings. In many parts of the country, trails are open to and shared by equestrians, OHV riders, bicycle riders, runners and hikers. Trail sharing can and does work when people respect each other and work cooperatively to keep each other safe.www.treadlightly.org/page.php/sharedtrails/Share-Our-Trails.html
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Post by fivendime on Jun 15, 2010 20:49:51 GMT -8
On a side note do you think there would be a snowballs chance........in you know where, that horse back riders would bother to take there horses out on a trail with all the motorized rigs driving past? I think not....or at least I wouldn't want to be riding one while people went past all the time, especially on one I'm breaking in. I really don't think that horse and motorized trails would be a problem. I have run into them in the past. If people just followed some Trail Etiquette. I know that the horse people have more problems with mountain bikers. Because they don't give the horse any warnings. In many parts of the country, trails are open to and shared by equestrians, OHV riders, bicycle riders, runners and hikers. Trail sharing can and does work when people respect each other and work cooperatively to keep each other safe.www.treadlightly.org/page.php/sharedtrails/Share-Our-Trails.htmlIn a perfect world... ;D Or shall I say in a world where people respect the rules of trail etiquette for all spectrum's of recreation.
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Post by annoyed on Jul 10, 2010 13:23:44 GMT -8
What is the deal with the people in your club and the your not cool enough or good enough if you dont have a jeep? ive been to your clean ups and been looked down on becuase i drive something stock.I gave you guys money for the trails yet when we ask whats going on with them we get told well if you didnt litter on the mtn youd know i mean what is that, how are you going to blame crap like that on someone you dont even know? I for one have gone up to larch mtn and have picked up trash on my own that people have left behind. So before you guys start pointing fingers and saying stuff that isnt true figure it out, there are alot of people that will help with the trail building but you guys as a whole are pretty disrespectful to alot of people just becuase you think they are the outlaw bunch that dont give a damn and thats not true who cares if some of us are younger then you we still love to wheel and be in the woods so you guys might want to stop looking down on people just becuase they are the so called outlaws because your making alot of people say no way pistons wild and not even help yall out
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Post by themooses on Jul 10, 2010 14:12:09 GMT -8
What is the deal with the people in your club and the your not cool enough or good enough if you dont have a jeep? ive been to your clean ups and been looked down on becuase i drive something stock.I gave you guys money for the trails yet when we ask whats going on with them we get told well if you didnt litter on the mtn youd know i mean wtf, how are you going to blame crap like that on someone you dont even know? I for one have gone up to larch mtn and have picked up trash on my own that people have left behind. So before you guys start pointing fingers and saying stuff that isnt true figure it out, there are alot of people that will help with the trail building but you guys as a whole are pretty disrespectful to alot of people just becuase you think they are the outlaw bunch that dont give a damn and thats not true who cares if some of us are younger then you we still love to wheel and be in the woods so you guys might want to stop looking down on people just becuase they are the so called outlaws because your making alot of people say f pistons wild and not even help yall out I have a fairly stock Jeep and have never been "looked down on". To the contrary, this bunch has been extremely helpful and forgiving when I did get in over my head! Nor have I seen such behavior in the year (almost) that I have been involved with this group! Yes, we do assign responsibility to the "outlaws" for the negative image we are trying to overcome because it is they who the public see doing the damage. If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, cool. Thank you for your personal cleanup efforts; on Larch as well as at our events. I invite you to attend the next one and hang with me. (I'm easy to spot). I think you will see a different side of this group. As far as info on the trail system and the progress: it is all readily available right here on the web site for you and the entire world to see. Anytime. We certainly do not look down on "younger people". I am a high school teacher and invite my students to go along on our runs and cleanups. Our school car club volunteers and they don't off-road at all! This club is very supportive of youth. We realize that they are our future. Finally, if someone from this club treated you with unfounded disrespect, PLEASE bring to our attention and we will investigate It The last thing we want is to alienate anybody, even the "outlaws". We would love to have them join our ranks and put their energy and talents to work in a positive and constructive way. Just one man's opinion. Respectfully, Moose
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Post by pistonschick on Jul 10, 2010 14:39:24 GMT -8
What is the deal with the people in your club and the your not cool enough or good enough if you dont have a jeep? ive been to your clean ups and been looked down on becuase i drive something stock.I gave you guys money for the trails yet when we ask whats going on with them we get told well if you didnt litter on the mtn youd know i mean wtf, how are you going to blame crap like that on someone you dont even know? I for one have gone up to larch mtn and have picked up trash on my own that people have left behind. So before you guys start pointing fingers and saying stuff that isnt true figure it out, there are alot of people that will help with the trail building but you guys as a whole are pretty disrespectful to alot of people just becuase you think they are the outlaw bunch that dont give a damn and thats not true who cares if some of us are younger then you we still love to wheel and be in the woods so you guys might want to stop looking down on people just becuase they are the so called outlaws because your making alot of people say f pistons wild and not even help yall out This post (like many others) is so far out in left field as well as pushing the boundries of the PG-13 rules that have been set forth on this forum. At this time, I would recommend that you: 1) Please make an actual point. 2) Please stop whining. 3) Please be specific in your complaint so we can address it. 4) Clean up the language. ORI WILL DELETE YOUR POST. I believe I have made myself "crystal" clear. I have made my point, I did not whine, I have been specific in my complaint and I did not require foul language to communicate my intent... If there are anymore of these useless rants posted anonymously on this forum - we will change the status of the forum that will require registration prior to posting... Congratulations "annoyed" - you are now officially a member of the small group that can't seem to follow the rules that will likely cause a change in the access to this forum. Even though the vast majority of the forum users have done nothing wrong - they too, will unfortunately, suffer the consequences by having their access limited...
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Post by windturbine1 on Jul 10, 2010 19:32:13 GMT -8
i think i need to chime in here. i agree with anonymous to a point. i have felt that there is an attitude that is portrayed from some members that are anti-fullsize and anti anything unless its a jeep. nothing has been said directly to that but things that are said in some posts can come off like that. i have a friend that has since deleted his profile because of this. i have felt it myself. one such instance was when i asked about fullsize rig accessible trails. Crystal answered back with "we will try to accomadate every skill level". i took that as did other people as an anti-full size remark. there have been other such remarks that put out that attitude. i have been to meetings and have been out with a small group wheeling and i know that there is not a anti-full size situation. all im saying is that there can be that attitude portrayed in this forum. i will be at the meeting on tuesday and i will be more than happy to discuss this in person. or my number is 360-326-5813 if you want to call me. i just want to be clear that no one has come out and said that they are anti-full size or anti-anything unless its a jeep. its just the attitude on the forum with some replies. im sure that when the design team gets together they will do what they can to make some wide enough for those of us that have big trucks. and as far as obstacles go " THE MORE THE BETTER".
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Post by bchutchens on Jul 10, 2010 20:16:12 GMT -8
I'm sorry you feel this way. I would hope that everyone would feel welcome in this club. I have a TJ but I also have a F-350 Crew-cab. And I know that should never work on the trails. But I'm totally in for some if not all the trails working for larger rigs. I hope in the future you feel more welcome around the members of this club. We are really trying to do good things in the Yacolt Burn. And yes there are many other people and clubs working for the better of the area.
Also I hope that I have never treated you negative towards what you drive or anything else. If you want to talk, please PM me and I will call you back. Bill Hutchens
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Post by pistonschick on Jul 10, 2010 21:18:23 GMT -8
i have felt it myself. one such instance was when i asked about fullsize rig accessible trails. Crystal answered back with "we will try to accomadate every skill level";. i took that as did other people as an anti-full size remark. there have been other such remarks that put out that attitude. i have been to meetings and have been out with a small group wheeling and i know that there is not a anti-full size situation. all im saying is that there can be that attitude portrayed in this forum. Terrry, you watch way too much TV. Get a life. The conspiracy theory that you are constantly looking for, does not exist! I am not a professional politician - I am just a regular person - like everyone else. I'm sorry that I don't have a staff of writers to provide me speeches that orchestrate every word I say that carefully filter out any comments that might be taken the wrong way by the unsuspecting public. This is a risk I take by opening our meetings to the public - would you prefer that I lock out the general public? Maybe at the next meeting, I will quick-fire a bunch of questions at you and let's see how long it takes you to step on your pud? Do some of our club members possibly lean to the "anti-full-size" way of thinking? Probably - I would be surprised if every single member of the 25 families in this club never once had a negative thought about full-size vehicles in the forest. In addtion, I'm sure some don't like shooters and maybe some don't like 2-strokes - there might even be some that don't like horses. But you know what? That's their American right - to think what they think and feel how they feel and most importantly - say what they want! Our only expectations of our members is that they have a deep seated personal love of motorsports, are safe and responsible stewards of the lands and property on which we recreate and want to hang out with others like them. Some people, like you Terry, seem to forget that we are a "MOTORSPORTS CLUB", not a 4x4 club. We started this project with the intention that EVERYONE should have a right to recreate in the forest. When we say everyone - WE MEAN EVERYONE; 4X4's (all sizes), side x sides (all sizes), ATV's (all sizes), dirt bikes (all sizes), horses (all sizes), hikers (all sizes - haha), mountain bikes (all sizes). We started this project 3 1/2 years ago from the standpoint that all Washington residents should be able to enjoy State Lands - not just an elite few and that primary objective has NEVER lost it's focus. It seems like everytime there is the smallest little ripple of grief on this forum - you are always there to say "ME TOO, ME TOO". Let's talk - you and I - face to face - and get things straight! Tuesday night before the club meeting. I will be there early at 6:00pm - how about you? Be sure to bring your sense of humor, because I work two jobs during the day and I am also a person who detests public speaking - so just before the club meeting, I should be in a fabulous mood. If I were a suspicious person, Terry, I would have to wonder why "annoyed" and you share almost the exact same atrocious typing skills and grammatical errors in your posts? ;D
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Post by windturbine1 on Jul 11, 2010 9:04:13 GMT -8
all im saying that is the attitude that can be portrayed can come off as anti-full size. ive gone back and read a few topics on this forum and have not found where any member of this club has said anything about wanting to make these trails wide enough for the bigger trucks. as far as the "me too me too" remark i have an interest in the full size situation because i drive one. i would be more than happy to sit down with you before the meeting. i can be there at 6pm. as far as comparing me to the other poster and insulting my less than desired typing skills well im going to amswer that here. ive nerver insulted you in anyway and you as the president of this club should have a higher standard.
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Post by pistonschick on Jul 11, 2010 9:49:32 GMT -8
as far as comparing me to the other poster and insulting my less than desired typing skills well im going to amswer that here. ive nerver insulted you in anyway and you as the president of this club should have a higher standard. My higher standard is to protect this club, it's reputation and the members that support it. You insult me and the members of this club EVERY SINGLE TIME you acuse us of being "anti-full-size". There are members of this club that have given YEARS (not hours or days) YEARS of their life to this project - fighting for the rights of ALL off-roaders. Everytime you or someone like you takes a stab at the intentions of this club or any of it's members - it pisses me off and I'm done putting up with it. Take just a few minutes of your life and go back and read this entire thread - you will see multiple instances where I have confirmed and re-confirmed that we are building trails for EVERYONE! One of our most trusted resources for input in regards to building trails for full-size vehicles is Toyrocs - and he wheels a gigantic Toyota called the "mini-monster". I rely on his input because he has historically spent countless hours working on actual trails in actual forests - not just leaning on a shovel so he can say he was there - but actual planning, strategizing, creating, fund-raising and building. Yeah, he web wheels too - but more importantly - he actually goes 4-wheeling on a regular basis. Toyrocs and his club, Cascade Cruisers, take care of the world class "Airplane" trail in the Tillamook State Forest. Another resource we will rely on is the Mud-Puppies 4x4 Club. They have a long history of being actively involved in the Pacific Northwest 4-Wheel Association and have always been active in volunteering their time and service to the trails. They are the reason we all still get to enjoy the "Waterfall" trail in the Tillamook State Forest. They are primarily a "full-size" club. Unfortunately, you may not have heard of them because they don't web wheel - at all. Three more resources we will tap into are PNW Full-Size 4x4's, W.O.W. (Wheelers of Washington - a full-size association), and Poorboy's Off-Road, because they have continually and consistently been involved in this project from the beginning. They were there to help at the clean-ups, consistently attended important meetings, helped spread the word about the project and even helped us with the Wetland Restoration project in Dole Valley. These are the type of people whose input will be sought out when the time comes to design the "full-size" 4x4 trails. It is unlikely that we will actively seek feedback from some smack-talking web wheeler who rarely hits the trail - or more importantly, does not have a history of responsible stewardship of the lands on which we recreate. So you have to ask yourself - if we are so "anti-full-size" - how is it possible that we have been so involved with all of these primarily 'FULL-SIZE" organizations? If we had no intentions of building full-size trails - why would we bother to integrate these groups into the fold?
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Post by racincowboy on Jul 11, 2010 10:00:59 GMT -8
To Annoyed,
To my knowledge no one has ever looked "down" upon anyone because they didn't drive a Jeep stock or otherwise. We are a motorsports club where as everything motorized is welcome doesn't matter what it is.
If there was an instance of said bashing for not driving a jeep or a stock one. I would appreciate if you would bring it to our attention. We are all adults here and yes do feathers get ruffled?Sometimes yes they do. Do we sit down talk it out to my knowledge we do. I have agreed to disagree on things. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and has that right to express ones opinion. I would be more then happy to sit down with you and discuss what you are talking about as will many if not all the other club members.
But to come in here as annoyed or anonymous that is not right nor is it fair. Should you want to sit down and get this stuff out in the open I am more then available as are other members. It is very easy to hide behind a keyboard and bash about one thing or another.
We all greatly appreciate your picking up garbage anytime your in the woods doesn't matter if you are a club member, outlaw or a purple dinosaur everyone benefits from that few minutes you took to clean up after someone that didn't care enough to pack it in pack it out.
So the ball is in your court if you want to do something about the issues you are having.
P.S. The language thing will not be tolerated. We have members with kids that frequent this board as well. Also there is other members that dont want to see the language. There are plenty of other boards out there that do not mind that sort of thing. That is not here.
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Post by annoyed on Jul 11, 2010 12:37:16 GMT -8
i was just saying my point and once again you guys come off as dispespectful. people have the right to say what they want to say wheel what they want to wheel. crystal more and more i hear of people who cant stand you becuase of your attitude to the people that are not members of your club. to who ever said no one has ever been looked down on i feel i was when i showed up to the last clean up in my stock cherokee, i was told by a few members CRYSTAL HER SELF that id never be allowed to go wheeling with the club becuase i had a stock vehical so all im saying is take a look at how you treat people, no matter who they are becuasse it will come back to bite you in the butt
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Post by hootie on Jul 11, 2010 13:14:34 GMT -8
I wasn't going to chime in.. I have read this entire post.. I don't even know how many times. It saddens my heart to read this post and the feelings being hurt on this thread. I have to think,, that no matter what some one writes... it can always be read in many voices. Each person needs to realize that what you read can be interpreted in several ways. heck,, look at politics.. same thing. What one person writes may have sounded different in the writers head than the way it is read in the readers head. I personally think we need to take a step back,, not keep perpetuating this subject. I have been a member of this club since just short of the very start. I drive a s-10 blazer and a full sized bronco. I personally have never had one person tell me I needed a jeep.. and even if I did.. I would have chocked it up to the motorsports fun of the Ford vs Chevy thing.. and would let it roll off or respond in Fun. There is NO Real hate or discouragement for any type of rig by the club in general... of course you will hear the Ford vs Chevy type conversations.. It would not be motorsports if there wasn't some of this.. IT IS ALL IN FUN>>
I have a very dear spot in my heart for this project and it really hurts me inside that this conversation has made it four or five pages in this forum.. Can we just all recognize that this chatter will not help do anything but undermine the very people who are here to help.. some times we all just need to let the little stuff go... heck,, we havent even moved a rock yet.. There is nothing to complain about yet. wait till we are actually at least part way into the building of the system and lets see what it is really looking like.
Lets wait until we are actually up there in the forest and a particular piece of trail is being created... THEN have this discussion. Why make enemies on a forum.. even before anything Real has occurred.
Heck this thread could have stopped in several points.. seemed like people were ok,, then it kept going.. I guess is part of Forums in general. Lets not forget the nature of the beast and be a bit forgiving. Let some stuff go. Heck,, the writer may not have intended the meaning that you got. And.. by not responding some stuff can end without feelings being hurt over what may not have been intended meaning in the first place.
This is my laid back opinion. clicking "post reply" I hope what I have written will have the positive feeling that I have intended. Dave.
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fry
Ok to Drive
Posts: 114
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Post by fry on Jul 11, 2010 13:16:13 GMT -8
you saw the feedback on the work we did at The Can Opener. People complained it was too easy. But what we did was built to be sustainable, and deal with the erosion problems. People have built (tore open) a bypass around the filter. Because they didn't like it. If I can't do the filter, it makes no sense to drive around it! I'm happy with the filter, the work we did. I don't have enough Jeep for it, but I'm happy. The people I talked to about Can Opener all complained that the filter was harder then the rest of the trail! The filter was designed to be challenging!!!! It was to keep rigs/drivers that shouldn't be there out of there. The last time I was up there the top of the trail had gotten more challenging as the weather had gotten worse and the tires had been spinning. But the erosion was nothing like in the past so in my eyes the work was a success! I guess that no matter how hard people try not everyone is going to be happy. I'm just gong to be happy that there is going to be a trail system even closer to home for me even if my rig might not be able to go on all of the trails! filters are not designed to exclude or keep people out of anywhere. filter is a word used describe part of the trail. the definition of of the word is lost in translation of multiple definitions. generally the people who have a hard time with this concept have never been apart of trail building. filter has many definitions: ~~~~~Filters can be thought of as sets built from multiple nets. Therefore, both the limit of a filter and the limit of a net is conceptually the same as the limit of a sequence.~~~~~ it is my opinion those who rebuilt the canopener did a most outstanding job. it is unfortunate that a small percentage of people have a hard time unstanding this, and "the dude" should not feel the need to explain the obvious.
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