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Post by windturbine1 on Mar 27, 2010 9:38:41 GMT -8
i agree that cherokees are very capable rigs. i would build one myself if my family could fit but we cant. all im saying is a trail or 2 for fullsize rigs. there are alot of guys in the 4wheel community that run fullsize rigs with no place to play. now a trail system is being built in our backyard and still no place to play. thats a reason why people go where they are not supposed to. i for one wont help build a trail system that i cant use just because i choose to drive something that is bigger than a jeep or toyota.
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Post by toyrocs on Mar 27, 2010 11:50:57 GMT -8
One more input on the size thing! During the winter with my snow tires, my actual width is 96" & I can do 98% of the trails at TSF no problem. Summer width is 84", & can do ALL of them with NO body contact or damage. Wheel base is 115" with a reduced steering angle to protect the U joints.
I only rarely have to back & fill to negotiate a tight turn. Granted my rig is not a FULL SIZE , FULL SIZE, and I have wide tires that act as BUMPERS at times!!!!!!! ;D ;D
Another consideration: As new trails are used, they tend to get just a little wider than the original path "were talking a matter of inches here". Then after a season or two the width is pretty much stabilized .
Having said all that, I think restricting trail use by width is very problematic & maybe not desirable, as wide or less capable rigs/ drivers will always find their way onto narrow trails! A few of the new trails or SEGMENTS could be "Narrow", but expect the width limits to be exceeded.
I would highly recommend CAPABILITY filters (trail use limits) and NOT an arbitrary WIDTH trail filter or rule / law.
If a new trail or segment is narrow, how about just installing postings at the trail heads " trail is narrow & vehicle damage is likely" This is how the very narrow & nasty Busywild Trail @ Elbe Hills is marked on the DNR lands there.
Let the flames begin. Toyrocs
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Post by windturbine1 on Mar 27, 2010 13:18:23 GMT -8
thank you toyrocs for your comments. finally someone gets the point.
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Post by fivendime on Mar 29, 2010 10:20:01 GMT -8
I'm new to the 4x4 world and it seems this is a touchy subject. I am sitting on the fence with this one. I think there is no winning side to this argument. I think its nice to keep the trails more smaller for technicality but its also lame to single out people just because they want to wheel a different rig. I'm not sure we can just go a hack a bunch of trees down to fit big rigs, but maybe we can?
Windturbine I do think however that its irresponsible to say that just because you cant "use" it that you wont help in building it. With that attitude I could see why people wont build them for you. I volunteer simply because I want to help out and use my God given skills to help others. Example, March 20th work party up at Jones Creek I was helping with the ATV trails again because I wanted to help, but I never use the trails. Another example is I was at a youth camp this last weekend doing some volunteer work building shelves for a storage room. I could have been flinging sand with my palls at Sand Lake or at Browns Camps Clean Up but I wasn't. I'm not saying we must volunteer all the time or even often for that matter I just think we all have to work together or this sport will be wiped out by the people that want us gone.
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Post by toyrocs on Mar 29, 2010 15:19:40 GMT -8
I helped rebuild the Hogsback trail in the TSF, hauling in tons of gravel with the mini monster / trailer. I will also never be able to wheel this trail. This trail is now posted with width restrictions & has width filters.
During the construction period I drove the mini monster WITHOUT HITTING ANYTHING on the trail , so go figure. I however will still donate my time & money to 4WD trail maintenance/ building.
Yes all 4x4 trails are important & we should have a mix of 4x4 uses IE: easy, narrow, hard & extreme. I do however believe we should really promote, build & maintain the hard & extreme trails as this is the current trend & is a great recreational experience for many people & families.
We have a great chance to make the Yacolt Burn trail system one that serves the people of this state with quality outdoor recreation! There are many good byproducts of a well thought out & executed trail system plan in this area.
A 4WD trail system like this will promote user ownership & stewardship of our lands that this area needs & deserves. A great challenging trail system that is close to so many, would be a crown jewel for SW WA .
Toyrocs
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Post by windturbine2 on Mar 29, 2010 15:39:21 GMT -8
first off i was just blowing off steam because i feel like im being excluded because of what i choose to drive. however joey there is a big difference between choosing not to run a trail system and cant run a trail system. i could buy quads and run the ATV trails. i cant however buy a smaller rig and run browns camp. if i did then my family wouldnt be able to go with me. i wouldve been at the work party but got called in to work. i do have the next work party day off so that i can attend. i also wanted to attend the TSF work party as well. and later in the summer iam traveling to eastern idaho for a clean up party for a place that i played when i lived there. i do plan on giving my assistance as much as possible for this trail system. i do think that this area is in need of an area like this. i just wish that i heard about it earlier than i did. all im saying is that im not the only one that reads this forum with a fullsize rig. my only problem that i have is width and the turns of the trails. as far as obstacles go than the more the better. one trail wide enough for a fullsize will be perfect.
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Post by windturbine2 on Mar 29, 2010 15:41:05 GMT -8
for some reason i couldnt log in as windturine1 so i created a new account as windturbine2.
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Post by fivendime on Mar 29, 2010 19:03:21 GMT -8
I checked your account and its fine? Try again and let me know if it works for ya! Terry, there are plenty of trails at Browns Camp for full size rigs including your burban. I have seen quite a few large rigs up there. I know there are a few size filters which in some cases make no sense but in others it would make sense. I think size filters are needed in few circumstances but for the most part I think there not needed. Capability filters are needed for obvious reasons as well. My guess is the Yacolt Trail system will be well rounded like Browns Camp, or at least I hope it will. Something for everyone will be ideal but the future will tell that. Ultimately DNR has the final say on what the trails will look like. I just hope we all can stick together to build these trails. P.S. come to the meeting and ask more questions. I think its a good thing to bring up.
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Post by ljdude on Mar 29, 2010 19:33:00 GMT -8
The one complaint that I have about browns camp is the trails where the size filters are by far the narrowest parts of the trail. I understand having the filter if the trail is narrow but when most of the trail is wide enough for two rigs side by side it doesnt make sense.
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Post by iceman on Mar 29, 2010 21:08:31 GMT -8
I thought I would put my few sense in. I have a Cherokee witch is in no way as big as a full size burb or pickup or bronco. But I have a couple people that have full size rigs in my family. We run quite a bit of trails in BC and haven't had any body damage or had much problems getting though the trails that we run. I would be glad to take anyone there and run some of the trails with you. But you would have to keep in mind that ultimately you would be driving I could only do so much for any driver as a spotter. I would also like there to be a mix of trails at the Yacolt Burn ORV park. The plan is to build a WORLD CLASS ORV park and I don't think those plan's have changed. That means that we will do our best to cater to everyone as much as we can, but please keep in mind that a majority of the off road vehicles out there are not the size of the rigs in question. That doesn’t mean that we can't make it work. I hope this helps, and doesn’t make anyone mad lol
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beatcj
Ok to Drive
Flat out LAZY...
Posts: 169
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Post by beatcj on Mar 30, 2010 9:26:09 GMT -8
"You can never make everyone happy, but it's easy to piss them all off at once!"
I suspect that everyone can be accomodated. It won't be enough to make everyone happy, but this is a long term project. If it's "DONE" in 10 years, I'll be surprised.
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Post by kenny811 on Mar 30, 2010 11:00:28 GMT -8
"""I suspect that everyone can be accomodated. It won't be enough to make everyone happy, but this is a long term project. If it's "DONE" in 10 years, I'll be surprised.""" But will you be happy?
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Post by windturbine1 on Mar 30, 2010 15:53:24 GMT -8
i got the login problem fixed. in my ranting i was under the impression that the trails at browns camp that the fullsize guys run are basically gravel roads. i have had friends run BC with broncos and blazers and they have all told me not to run there because the trails are to small for our rigs. so i guess ill have to wait and see how this trail system plays out.
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beatcj
Ok to Drive
Flat out LAZY...
Posts: 169
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Post by beatcj on Mar 31, 2010 13:38:51 GMT -8
I suspect that everyone can be accomodated. It won't be enough to make everyone happy, but this is a long term project. If it's "DONE" in 10 years, I'll be surprised. But will you be happy? Kenny, I will be happy. But I think I expect different things than some other people. I am afraid that people that want mudpit boggin' through creeks are going to be disappointed. But that's because in today's environment, that's not something that is sustainable from DNR's perspective. I doubt we will be able to build "Hardcore" rock trails. I think that eventually, some of the trails may "mature" into that, but you saw the feedback on the work we did at The Can Opener. People complained it was too easy. But what we did was built to be sustainable, and deal with the erosion problems. People have built (tore open) a bypass around the filter. Because they didn't like it. If I can't do the filter, it makes no sense to drive around it! I'm happy with the filter, the work we did. I don't have enough Jeep for it, but I'm happy. So maybe I'm the wrong person to be the judge of those things. I have this reasonable streak, what I expect is different than many people.
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Post by themooses on Apr 1, 2010 11:04:11 GMT -8
So maybe I'm the wrong person to be the judge of those things. I have this reasonable streak, what I expect is different than many people. Different? ok...Resonable, yes. is that a bad thing? NO!! I wish more people were "resonable" like you, Gordon.
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